Live blogging from Internet Retailer Conference
Here at IRCE, I'm in a workshop around affiliates and along with 80% of the attendees, I'm sitting here with my jaw open because instead of offering ways to maximize your affiliate business, this workshop has essentially been a 90 minute rant about what scum-bags affiliates are and tons of data that are essentially telling retailers to scale back or do extreme policing of their affiliate programs.
Why the anti-affiliate sentiment?
I decided to cover this topic on CSE strategies, because with ChannelAdvisor's ShoppingAdvisor product, we've seen more and more retailers going direct with their top affiliates, and keeping the bottom-tier affiliates in affiliate networks for closer management. Retailers seem to be separating the wheat from the chaff.
Barbara Hurd from Harry and David talked about how they are fighting affiliates that are doing bad things like saying they have a H+D coupon code, but then send people to competitor's sites.
Vickie Updike from Miles Kimball - pointed to some research they did that showed affiliate drove only 17% NEW orders for them. In other words, 83% of the affiliate orders were essentially coming to MK were intercepted and MK had to effectively pay for orders they would have gotten anyway.
George Michie went on a rampage and talked about the bad guys and their tricks such as:
- PPC fiends - these guys violate your affiliate rules and do things like buy your keywords at night (night pirates), or use geo targeting to avoid your corp HQ and buy in other regions. You can catch these, but it's tough.
- Coupon sites - these guys are trained by the consumer press (today show mentioned twice - evidently Matt Lauer is big on coupons)
- Domain squaters - they buy things like plasmatvs.com and do lots of SEO and then charge for traffic to a bunch of affiliates.
- Loyalty programs - eBates kind of programs essentially want to take an affiliate % from traffic you should be getting - avoid them.
What's a retailer to do?
At the end of the day, the panel seemed to be saying that it's time to drop the hammer on affiliate programs, cull out the bad guys and focus more on Web 2 kinds of activities like blogs, user-generated-content, etc.
On the culling side, one of the panelists likened finding your 'good affiliates' like trying to find the good guys in prison.
Ouch - nuff said.
I don't think it's fair to say you're paying for orders that you would have gotten anyway - any sophisticated online shopper looks for deals. I think it's fair to assume that a lot of those orders would not have come in if a deal did not exist on an affiliate site. (I am an online shopper and NOT and affiliate).
Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 09, 2008 at 04:20 PM
I'd be curious to hear some affiliates weigh in ... was the panel wrong? Any possibilities of self policing to weed out bad apples?
Posted by: Josh | Jun 12, 2008 at 01:28 PM
There is a thread that should be read from the affiliates point of view at http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=106451
The panel was ill chosen.
Posted by: Pets Warehouse | Jun 16, 2008 at 02:33 AM
Scot,
Thanks for checking out my session as well.I look forward to continuing to work with your team to improve the tools.
Posted by: Ryan Douglas | Jun 17, 2008 at 04:50 PM
Scot thanks for you post. Here is my response to Georges post. Yes he did go to far and makes it seem like the old search marketing vs. affiliate marketing conflict has reared its head.
George
We at MediaTrust are very familiar with and understand the issue at hand. Yes the affiliate industry has had issues with a percentage of affiliates who do not practice or adhere to ethical standards. But there is also the very large very legitimate side of affiliate marketing which has been referenced to in this interview with Patrick Byrne where he says how large and valuable Overstocks affiliate program is to there marketing and growth strategy http://www.relevantlyspeaking.com/2008/06/05/interview-with-overstocks-ceo-patrick-byrne
Its a shame that the panel discussion turned into a affiliate bashing and that the panel was not rounded out with affiliate marketing representation. It does not sound like it was a very objective panel. As is your post here where you apologize and then summarily bash and belittle the substantial $3billion in affiliate commissions as being mostly fraudulently created revenue with out any back up data to prove your statement. Especially when you say it provides no value. Please read the Overstock post and lets also ask why they and Amazon are spending money defending their affiliate program and affiliate partners.
There are many more good people in this marketing vertical than bad. The industry has now formed the PMA http://www.performancemarketingalliance.com to set standards and govern the industry.It is important that all sides of the business participate in the PMA so that we can learn from their insights and provide better accountable service and standards. Aff marketing is not going away. So lets all work together to bring it to a level of excellence. negativity breeds negativity and it seems that everyone wants to create a better affiliate marketing channel.
There are other companies like ours who work extremely hard to ensure quality and empower of advertising and affiliate partners with the best tools and information to achieve success by collaborating and creating long term partnerships.
It is important that thought leaders be responsible in giving well rounded and objective sides of the 3billion plus story and work together with the community to find solutions.That 3 billion number is only commission. So we are talking about enormous gross transactional number that is driving much value to many of the world largest retailers.
I hope you will help create proactive solutions by participating in the PMA. Please excuse me for the length of this post.It is a very important subject for us and our performance marketing industry.
all the best
Peter Bordes
CEO
MediaTrust
Posted by: peter bordes | Jun 20, 2008 at 02:37 PM
Scot thanks for you post. Here is my response to Georges post. Yes he did go to far and makes it seem like the old search marketing vs. affiliate marketing conflict has reared its head.
George
We at MediaTrust are very familiar with and understand the issue at hand. Yes the affiliate industry has had issues with a percentage of affiliates who do not practice or adhere to ethical standards. But there is also the very large very legitimate side of affiliate marketing which has been referenced to in this interview with Patrick Byrne where he says how large and valuable Overstocks affiliate program is to there marketing and growth strategy http://www.relevantlyspeaking.com/2008/06/05/interview-with-overstocks-ceo-patrick-byrne
Its a shame that the panel discussion turned into a affiliate bashing and that the panel was not rounded out with affiliate marketing representation. It does not sound like it was a very objective panel. As is your post here where you apologize and then summarily bash and belittle the substantial $3billion in affiliate commissions as being mostly fraudulently created revenue with out any back up data to prove your statement. Especially when you say it provides no value. Please read the Overstock post and lets also ask why they and Amazon are spending money defending their affiliate program and affiliate partners.
There are many more good people in this marketing vertical than bad. The industry has now formed the PMA http://www.performancemarketingalliance.com to set standards and govern the industry.It is important that all sides of the business participate in the PMA so that we can learn from their insights and provide better accountable service and standards. Aff marketing is not going away. So lets all work together to bring it to a level of excellence. negativity breeds negativity and it seems that everyone wants to create a better affiliate marketing channel.
There are other companies like ours who work extremely hard to ensure quality and empower of advertising and affiliate partners with the best tools and information to achieve success by collaborating and creating long term partnerships.
It is important that thought leaders be responsible in giving well rounded and objective sides of the 3billion plus story and work together with the community to find solutions.That 3 billion number is only commission. So we are talking about enormous gross transactional number that is driving much value to many of the world largest retailers.
I hope you will help create proactive solutions by participating in the PMA. Please excuse me for the length of this post.It is a very important subject for us and our performance marketing industry.
all the best
Peter Bordes
CEO
MediaTrust
Posted by: peter bordes | Jun 20, 2008 at 02:37 PM
Scot thanks for you post. Here is my response to Georges post. Yes he did go to far and makes it seem like the old search marketing vs. affiliate marketing conflict has reared its head.
George
We at MediaTrust are very familiar with and understand the issue at hand. Yes the affiliate industry has had issues with a percentage of affiliates who do not practice or adhere to ethical standards. But there is also the very large very legitimate side of affiliate marketing which has been referenced to in this interview with Patrick Byrne where he says how large and valuable Overstocks affiliate program is to there marketing and growth strategy http://www.relevantlyspeaking.com/2008/06/05/interview-with-overstocks-ceo-patrick-byrne
Its a shame that the panel discussion turned into a affiliate bashing and that the panel was not rounded out with affiliate marketing representation. It does not sound like it was a very objective panel. As is your post here where you apologize and then summarily bash and belittle the substantial $3billion in affiliate commissions as being mostly fraudulently created revenue with out any back up data to prove your statement. Especially when you say it provides no value. Please read the Overstock post and lets also ask why they and Amazon are spending money defending their affiliate program and affiliate partners.
There are many more good people in this marketing vertical than bad. The industry has now formed the PMA http://www.performancemarketingalliance.com to set standards and govern the industry.It is important that all sides of the business participate in the PMA so that we can learn from their insights and provide better accountable service and standards. Aff marketing is not going away. So lets all work together to bring it to a level of excellence. negativity breeds negativity and it seems that everyone wants to create a better affiliate marketing channel.
There are other companies like ours who work extremely hard to ensure quality and empower of advertising and affiliate partners with the best tools and information to achieve success by collaborating and creating long term partnerships.
It is important that thought leaders be responsible in giving well rounded and objective sides of the 3billion plus story and work together with the community to find solutions.That 3 billion number is only commission. So we are talking about enormous gross transactional number that is driving much value to many of the world largest retailers.
I hope you will help create proactive solutions by participating in the PMA. Please excuse me for the length of this post.It is a very important subject for us and our performance marketing industry.
all the best
Peter Bordes
CEO
MediaTrust
Posted by: peter bordes | Jun 20, 2008 at 02:37 PM
Scot thanks for you post. Here is my response to Georges post. Yes he did go to far and makes it seem like the old search marketing vs. affiliate marketing conflict has reared its head.
George
We at MediaTrust are very familiar with and understand the issue at hand. Yes the affiliate industry has had issues with a percentage of affiliates who do not practice or adhere to ethical standards. But there is also the very large very legitimate side of affiliate marketing which has been referenced to in this interview with Patrick Byrne where he says how large and valuable Overstocks affiliate program is to there marketing and growth strategy http://www.relevantlyspeaking.com/2008/06/05/interview-with-overstocks-ceo-patrick-byrne
Its a shame that the panel discussion turned into a affiliate bashing and that the panel was not rounded out with affiliate marketing representation. It does not sound like it was a very objective panel. As is your post here where you apologize and then summarily bash and belittle the substantial $3billion in affiliate commissions as being mostly fraudulently created revenue with out any back up data to prove your statement. Especially when you say it provides no value. Please read the Overstock post and lets also ask why they and Amazon are spending money defending their affiliate program and affiliate partners.
There are many more good people in this marketing vertical than bad. The industry has now formed the PMA http://www.performancemarketingalliance.com to set standards and govern the industry.It is important that all sides of the business participate in the PMA so that we can learn from their insights and provide better accountable service and standards. Aff marketing is not going away. So lets all work together to bring it to a level of excellence. negativity breeds negativity and it seems that everyone wants to create a better affiliate marketing channel.
There are other companies like ours who work extremely hard to ensure quality and empower of advertising and affiliate partners with the best tools and information to achieve success by collaborating and creating long term partnerships.
It is important that thought leaders be responsible in giving well rounded and objective sides of the 3billion plus story and work together with the community to find solutions.That 3 billion number is only commission. So we are talking about enormous gross transactional number that is driving much value to many of the world largest retailers.
I hope you will help create proactive solutions by participating in the PMA. Please excuse me for the length of this post.It is a very important subject for us and our performance marketing industry.
all the best
Peter Bordes
CEO
MediaTrust
Posted by: peter bordes | Jun 20, 2008 at 02:37 PM
Scot thanks for you post. Here is my response to Georges post. Yes he did go to far and makes it seem like the old search marketing vs. affiliate marketing conflict has reared its head.
George
We at MediaTrust are very familiar with and understand the issue at hand. Yes the affiliate industry has had issues with a percentage of affiliates who do not practice or adhere to ethical standards. But there is also the very large very legitimate side of affiliate marketing which has been referenced to in this interview with Patrick Byrne where he says how large and valuable Overstocks affiliate program is to there marketing and growth strategy http://www.relevantlyspeaking.com/2008/06/05/interview-with-overstocks-ceo-patrick-byrne
Its a shame that the panel discussion turned into a affiliate bashing and that the panel was not rounded out with affiliate marketing representation. It does not sound like it was a very objective panel. As is your post here where you apologize and then summarily bash and belittle the substantial $3billion in affiliate commissions as being mostly fraudulently created revenue with out any back up data to prove your statement. Especially when you say it provides no value. Please read the Overstock post and lets also ask why they and Amazon are spending money defending their affiliate program and affiliate partners.
There are many more good people in this marketing vertical than bad. The industry has now formed the PMA http://www.performancemarketingalliance.com to set standards and govern the industry.It is important that all sides of the business participate in the PMA so that we can learn from their insights and provide better accountable service and standards. Aff marketing is not going away. So lets all work together to bring it to a level of excellence. negativity breeds negativity and it seems that everyone wants to create a better affiliate marketing channel.
There are other companies like ours who work extremely hard to ensure quality and empower of advertising and affiliate partners with the best tools and information to achieve success by collaborating and creating long term partnerships.
It is important that thought leaders be responsible in giving well rounded and objective sides of the 3billion plus story and work together with the community to find solutions.That 3 billion number is only commission. So we are talking about enormous gross transactional number that is driving much value to many of the world largest retailers.
I hope you will help create proactive solutions by participating in the PMA. Please excuse me for the length of this post.It is a very important subject for us and our performance marketing industry.
all the best
Peter Bordes
CEO
MediaTrust
Posted by: peter bordes | Jun 20, 2008 at 02:38 PM